One very common Calvinist proof text for limited atonement and a limited salvic will on God’s part is in John 17:9. The context of the passage is Jesus in Garden Of Gethsemane. The synoptic gospels do record some of the content of Jesus’ preaching, but the Apostle John chooses to reveal a lot more content than simply “If it be Your will, let this cup pass from me”. From John’s gospel, we know that Jesus’ prayer was a whole lot longer than what the synoptic gospels tell us. Well, in verse 9 of John 17, Jesus says “I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.” In other words, the Calvinist interprets this as Jesus saying that He’s not praying for the salvation of the world, but only for the salvation of those who were predestined (i.e “those you have given me”). But does this mean that Jesus doesn’t really want everyone saved? Is that why He’s not praying for them?
Before I give my exegesis of this passage, there’s something we need to keep in mind.
The Bible Says God Wants The Whole World Saved In Several Other Passages
John 3:16-18 (the most well known passage in the New Testament) states “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son. Whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through Him. Everyone who believes in Him will not perish but whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the only son of God.” A casual reading of this passage indicates that God loves everyone. Why? Because it says He loves the world. Is Hitler part of the world? Am I part of the world? Are you part of the world? Was Judas Iscariot part of the world? Was Caiphas part of the world? This passage seems to be using the word “World” because Jesus wanted Nicodemus (the person he was speaking to in this chapter) to know that God The Father was giving Him up for every single human being, i.e anyone who is part of the world. He loves everyone who is a part of the world, such that He gave up His only son to die for them.
But then you have 1 Timothy 2:4-6 which affirms not only God’s salvic will, but also whom Christ died for. “This is good and pleases God our savior who wants all people to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. “
2 Peter 3:9 likewise affirms that God “…is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
1 John 2:2, says “[Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
You also have Hebrews 2:9 which says that Jesus “tasted death for everyone.”
There are several other passages that teach us that the number of people God wants to save is every single person who walks the face of the Earth. I get into a lot more of them in my blog post “Is Molinism Biblical”. Anyway, since scripture teaches that God loves everyone, wants everyone to be saved, and that Jesus died on the cross for everyone, whatever Jesus means here in his Gethsemane prayer, it’s probably not that He doesn’t want the whole world saved.
We should always interpret the unclear passages of scripture in light of the clear passages. The Bible says over and over and over and over that God wants “all people” to be saved (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4) that’s why Jesus died for “the world” (John 3:16), the “whole world” (1 John 2:2), for “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9, 1 Timothy 2:6). And this explains why He grieves when He has to send anyone to Hell for their sins (see Ezekiel 18:23, Ezekiel 18:33, Luke 19:41-44). In light of these clear passages of scripture, however we interpret John 17:9, we should do it in light of these above quoted scriptures. Interpret the unclear passages in light of the clear.
What Did Jesus Actually Mean in John 17:9?
Well, it seems to me that the Calvinist is reading a limited salvic will of God into the scripture. There doesn’t appear to be anything about the verse that indicates Jesus doesn’t want the whole world saved? Jesus is speaking in the present tense. Jesus says “I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.” Jesus said “I am not praying for them.” Jesus doesn’t say “I have not” or “I will not” or “I have never and will never” pray for the world. He’s saying “I am not” praying for the world.
In other words, “I am not currently praying for the world. I’ll save that for a later date. Rather, right now, I’m praying for my disciples, and the ones whom you’ve given me.” It is the case that Jesus is not praying for the world in that particular instance. It would be like if I said a prayer today and prayed “Lord, I am not praying for all unbelievers, but only those who are closest to me. I care about them and want to spend eternity with them. Please bring them into a loving relationship with Yourself somehow.” Now, that doesn’t mean I’ve never prayed for unbelievers whom I’m not close to (like Dawkins for example). It just that I wasn’t praying for them in that particular moment. It seems to me that this is what we have with Jesus in John 17. Jesus isn’t praying for the salvation of the world in that particular moment. Jesus is simply praying for the elect.
Perhaps Jesus prayed for the non-elect on occasions prior to this which we don’t even know about, which the gospel writers didn’t record. The gospels do only record Jesus’ birth, an incident that happened when He was 12, and His 3 year ministry. It doesn’t record all of the prayers that Jesus ever prayed. Maybe He did pray for the entire human race on unrecorded occasions. Given that God wants all people to be saved (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4), it would certainly make sense if He did.
Moreover, Jesus isn’t even praying for all believers, only the 12 disciples. This is evident from the fact that Jesus says in John 17:20, “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message” So Jesus isn’t even praying for all believers until several verses later.
In conclusion, this Bible verse does not say what the Calvinist wants it to say. It in no way indicates that Jesus wants anyone less than the whole world to be saved, only that He isn’t praying for the whole world at that particular moment. Moreover, not only is He not praying for the whole world at that moment (in John 17:9), He’s not even praying for the “world of the elect” either. Not until verse 20 does Jesus even pray for all who would eventually believe.
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”). But does this mean that Jesus doesn’t really want everyone saved? Is that why He’s not praying for them?
Jesus prays for the whole world to be saved, but not at that particular instance. This is what the writer wrote that best explains what Jesus said in John 17:9.
We should always interpret the unclear passages of scripture in light of the clear passages. The Bible says over and over and over and over that God wants “all people” to be saved (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4) that’s why Jesus died for “the world” (John 3:16), the “whole world” (1 John 2:2), for “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9, 1 Timothy 2:6). And this explains why He grieves when He has to send anyone to Hell for their sins (see Ezekiel 18:23, Ezekiel 18:33, Luke 19:41-44). In light of these clear passages of scripture, however we interpret John 17:9, we should do it in light of these above quoted scriptures. Interpret the unclear passages in light of the clear.
Right. That’s an important takeaway point. As Greg Koukl (ironically a Calvinist) has said; “Never read a Bible verse.” If a mountain of scripture contradicts how you’re reading one verse, maybe you ought to reconsider whether you’re interpreting that one verse correctly.
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But moreover, John 17:9 is much more narrow than even the elect. Because, as I point out in the article, it’s only later that he prays “I also pray for those who believe in me through your word.” So he’s only praying for the disciples in verse 9. Yet no Calvinist is going to say that Jesus only wants The Twelve to be saved.
Without a full understanding of the Old Testament, the New Testament can be misleading. Jesus came to redeem those who were “under the law” (Galatians 4:5). Was the whole “world” under the law? … No. Only the children of Israel. But because they disobeyed they were scattered to all corners of the earth and THAT is the true context of the “world”; the scattered Israelites who will be saved despite being disobedient Gentiles.
Dat negative inference fallacy.
You do realize that Gods word has a clear distinction between Jew and Greek right? Like Jewish people are Gods chosen people intended for salvation. When they rejected Gods plan, he gave salvation to the Gentiles (which is the Greeks).
The whole world has always been under Gods judgment, Romans 1:18-20 and yet in Romans 2:15 God says that by “nature” (conscience) the gentiles do what is required by the law without actually having the physical law like the Jews.
Seems to me like you are saying God will only save the Jews and the rest of the world will burn in the lake of fire for all of eternity because he never really loved them 🤔🤨
How in the world did you come away with THAT interpretation of what I wrote!? I’m arguing against the Calvinist notion that God wants only certain individuals whom he selected to be saved. This is a common proof text they cite to prove that point. God wants all people to be saved; all Jews, all gentiles (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4, John 3:16). Every last one, which is why he died for “the world” (John 3:16), “The whole world” (1 John 2:2), “everyone” (Hebrews 2:9). Even false prophets who preach heresy and bring swift destruction on themselves and are obviously not “elect” (2 Peter 2:1). I am NOT saying God will only save Jewish people! The Bible doesn’t say that, and thank God it doesn’t, for then a gentile like myself would have no hope of eternal life with my Creator!
In John 17:9, Jesus Christ is praying to his Father. In John 6:37, 44 and 65 ONLY those people that the Father draws can come to Jesus. If the Father doesn’t draw a person, they can NEVER be saved. The Father gives the drawn people to Jesus Christ. Everybody can’t be in the body of Christ. Everybody is NOT going to heaven, only the chosen: 1 Peter 2:9. Only Noah and his family were saved. God KILLED all the others. Lot’s family were saved minus his wife. God destroyed all others. ONLY GOD can cause a person to repent. We CAN’T do it by ourselves. If HE doesn’t give us repentance, we will be lost. It’s HE that made us and not we ourselves. This is GOD’S world and HE does the choosing. Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever. He’s our High Priest, intercessor, mediator, and advocate praying to the Father on and for the Church’s behalf. All unbelievers will have they part in the lake of fire: Revelation 21:8
Yes, only people who are drawn can come to Christ. Yet look at what John 12:32 says. “And I, when I am lifted up from the Earth, will draw ALL PEOPLE to myself.”
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Yes, not everyone is getting into Heaven. Agreed. I am an Arminian, not a universalist. Those who resist the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) will not have Christ’s provisional atonement applied to them. Matthew 7:13-14 is clear that many will go down the broad path that leads to destruction.
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Using the historical account of Noah’s Flood is a poor argument for limited atonement. For one thing, it’s historical narrative. Unless another inspired author (like Jesus or one the apostles) draws a comparison, it borders of eisegetical for us to do so. Moreover, think about WHY only Noah and his family were saved while the rest were drowned. The text says that it’s because although the rest of the world had descended into immense depravity, yet Noah was found blameless in God’s sight. (Genesis 6:5, 8). Noah and his family were faithful to God while the rest of the world had turned their backs on Him. Presumably if people had repented, either God would have had Noah built a bigger boat or He wouldn’t have sent the flood at all. We would have had a situation similar to Ninevah where God announced incoming judgment but relented upon peoples’ repentance (Jonah 3-4). So to compare this with some soteriologixal process where God just arbitrarily picks and chooses who to spare and who not for eternal salvation is fallacious.
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1 Peter 2:9 says “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” This is referring to the elect corporate body of believers we call The Church. Yes. Not sure how this supports arbitrary picking and choosing of individuals throughout history.
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Yes, this is God’s world and “For God so loved THE WORLD that He gave His one and only Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
As far as God loving the “world”, please read Psalm 5:5 and 10:3,4 and 11:5 and Proverbs 6:16-19 (GOD hates a false witness(liars) and those who sow discord.) GOD is love but HE is angry with the wicked every day: Psalm 7:11 and Psalm 58:3 and 9:17 and 10:2-4.
God doesn’t hate anyone. He hates sin but loves the sinner. Your interpretation of those passages not only contradicts John 3:16 and Romans 5:8, but would actually logically entail that God hates Christians as well. After all, Psalm 5:5 says “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity” (KJV) right? But aren’t Christian’s occasionally workers of an equity? We don’t completely stop sinning after we come to Christ. Sanctification is a process and he’s transforming us to be more like him day by day. Yet, if we take it literally that God hates people who commit sin, and Christians still commit sin, at least some of the time, then it would follow that God hates Christians. God hates his own children! This is absurd!
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I think more likely is that these passages are employing a figure of speech known as metonymy. Proverbs 6:16-19 is ironically one of the passages I used to support this point. “There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.” (NIV)
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Does God hate literal feet, and tongues? Does God hate the blood pumps in our chests? Does he hate peoples eyes? Or does he hate the sins that people use these body parts to commit? God doesn’t hate feet that rush into evil, he hates the evil that the feet commit. He doesn’t hate peoples hands that shed blood, he hates the sin of shedding blood. Every single thing in this list is an example of metonymy. Why think the last thing in the list (“a false witness who pours out lies” is different?
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Yes, God is angry with the wicked. But only a small child would conflate anger with hatred (like when the child says “I hate you, mom!”). Mature people can recognize that you can be angry with someone and still love them.
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To take your divine hatred proof texts literally as opposed to metonymy would create a lot of contradictions between biblical passages that says God loves the world (John 3:16) and that He showed His love for us by dying for our sins even while we were still rebellious enemies (Romans 5:8). Jesus said “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13) And who did Jesus lay down His life for? “The world” (John 3:-6), “The whole world”, (1 John 2:2), “All people” (1 Timothy 2:6), “Everyone” (Hebrews 2:9), because He loves all people. He is “not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9, NIV) Because as 1 Timothy 2:4 states “(God) wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” (NIV) God is love (1 John 4:8, 16) and because of this He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but prefers that the wicked turn from their wicked ways and live (Ezekiel 18:23, Ezekiel 33:11). But make no mistake, the wicked WILL perish if they do not repent. Ezekiel 18 says as much and so does Jesus in his Sermon On The Mount (Matthew 7:13-14). God is holy and just and He cannot let unrepentant sin go unpunished. But that’s not what God desires. God prefers the wicked turn from their ways and live. This is why Jesus draws all people (John 12:32), but unfortunately some resist until the day they die (Acts 7:51).